Specific unit threats based on my battle today:

Plague monks + censer/furnace. Best avoided. Unbreakable with the furnace is just dirty. And with cheap slaves, they won't even sacrifice numbers to get it. Give it the run around with PK, MY or knights, it will kill most of the monks by turn 4...! Maybe get stuck in with M@A, but best avoided. EDIT - or as suggested by another, drop trebuchets on them!

Slaves (and clanrats!)- a nice match for M@A! Happy to trade blows here, even my prophetess was fairly safe from targetted attacks, though ideally would bunker her somewhere else. The icon of quenelles and shields + spears sees M@A coming out on top. Need a leadership boost from nearby knights. Actually, would not waste the IoQ on this.

Hellpit - mediocre. Sure, it has a pant-wetting range of attacks and rules, and the randomness of movement is sheer smugness for the user. But. Paladin with HKB. Just awesome. Survived 1 round without getting it, killed it the next. No regeneration for you, lol. Much more reliable than a flames + trebuchet combo.

Additional - lots of minor rules queries with the skaven, much ambiguity. Part and parcel of their complex (yet hilarious) rules.

What do you do if a grey seer rolls a spell that the plague monk already has - it is the plague monks signature, but not the seers. Can the seer exchange it? Stupid old army books with only 6 spells in...

Some rat swarm spell that starts as a large template and moves 4d6 - can it move in the direction of a target it can't see? That seems daft. Especially if I have to have LoS for dwellers (grrrr.... inconsistency in GW rules really grinds my gears - if only for the fact I always adhere to it but my opponents merrily ignore it if it affects them).

And don't let hellpits thunderstomp your cavalry! lol

Grey Seers can always substitute for Pestilent Breath, 13th and Skitterleap. Priests and Engineers are PBreath and WarpLightning accordingly

Some lessons based on defeat:

Be wary of gutter runners. They can whittle away your trebuchets and are very cost effective. You can shield trebuchets with archers (probably 2 units per to cover the rear edge and sides, or 3 total if you group in 1 corner). PK can cover, but then you're giving up your own warmachine hunting ability. Or some KoTR held in reserve. But then you're tying down a lot of points to counter very few. And an assassin might just surprise your guards. So your skaven opponent is already laughing.

WLC's. I got nothing. Seriously, I'd appreciate your thoughts, because I bet I can dump all over them. 90 points, only about a 1/18 chance of destroying themselves. Face up to 2 in most lists above 1000 points... Really tall so they fire over their own slaves... Ignoring our armour even if they roll 2 for their strength or whatever weird thing they do. And ending in a small blast, just like our trebuchets. Oh, and there's nothing in RAW to stop them bouncing *over* hills. My thoughts: don't form in lances (not 6's, not 9's, not anything). Form in lines so they only hit 3 knights. Use MSU's. Use M@A and archers. Disperse your strength (and thereby throw away your strengths). Counter battery fire if you can keep the gutter runners away from your trebuchets. Try and get the first turn (then cry when the storm banner gets revealed). Use PK (then cry etc. etc.).

Slaves. Ignore them. Not worth fighting. I'm planning on tying them down with Questing knights next game (who needs armour against WLC's and slaves have higher I anyway...). Instead, go straight for the grey seer/warlord. Punch through whatever chaff is in the way and go for the kill.

are you sure it's only 1/18? I've only played one skaven match, but I distinctly remember my opponent saying something about his warmachines blowing up all the time. He did bring a WLC, and it blew up in round 3. I think it managed to kill 2 knights in total.

I remember reading somewhere that when fighting skaven, you have to make sure that your opponent doesn't try to get both the final blast and the "direct line" parts of the shot on the same model - it's either or (so the cannon can't hit the same model twice in one shot). I have no reference on this, it was just something a skaven player was revealing on some board or another.

Yup, 1/6 misfire, 1/3 blow up, 1/6 * 1/3 = 1/18

The cannon fires like a cannon and bounces like a cannon. That means it penetrates ranks then ends up as a large blast. All your opponent has to do is place it 3 inches or more away from his target for a decent chance. Strength is random (artillery dice) but even then, S2 is still wounding T3 knights. All wounds are multiple D6 that ignore armour...

The only mitigating actions I can think of:

• Use multiple unit, single ranks of 5 cavalry models instead of nice long lances. That way he will only ever get 3 max, instead of 6 or 9. Don't show him your flank either.


• Use questing knights. You won't care about the "ignores armour" so much and your KoTR are hitting last against most rat units anyway. May as well be S6 all the time...


• Don't use PK. The D6 wounds is a killer and he could get 2 at a time. The stormbanner makes a mockery of your ability to hunt his WLC with them anyway.


• Pray, or don't. You may as well get the blessing and suffer the first round of shooting because if you don't pray and manage to go first the stormbanner will probably get popped before you start firing.


• Lone paladins with good ward or "other" saves next to your MSU knights. It's tempting his fire and you get a "look out, sir".


• Use the banner of defence?


• If he takes 2, punch your opponent.

And with one 90 point unit and one 50 point item, your opponent has robbed you of your blessing, your vertical envelopment (PK) and your shock charge (the lance).

Hey could someone give my list a once over?

http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=87&func=view&catid=14&id=151193#151193

Ta,

Ed

minor correction, warp lightning cannon is small template after the bounce, not large. their only large template weapon is the s2, ignores armor save, panic check if a wound gets taken poop flinging catapult. I love mine, I converted it out of a rock lobba and some screaming bell bits from the dual kit, but not many people take them. skaven war machines are incredibly powerful, but when they roll misfires they're just as devestating to their own men. I've killed well over 300 of my own troops models in round 3 of a regional ard boys before, where my previous 2 games were heavy handed victories. whups, there goes 1st 2cd and 3rd place hopes on turn 2, 25 minates into a great day's last fight. I was a sad panda.

Is it possible to cast chain lightning or Urannons thunderbolt directly on the Screaming bell? then to bounce the chain lightning onto the unit below? or for the purposes of magic is the ScBl part of the collective unit?

Help!
Ed

Ed, I believe it can't be individually targeted (such as urannons) but can be targeted with templates and other kinds of random weapons (cannons being a prime example)

Are you sure? It can be picked out specifically by archers etc. im just wondering whether its the same for magical missiles...

If archers can pick it out, magic missiles are fair game. I haven't faced skaven in a long time, but a magic missile is treated as a ranger attack that always hits.

Thank you you've just settled a volatile arguement between myself and my father.

Regards,
Ed

HANG ON...


Chain Lightning is direct damage.. would this still work?

Upon reading the skaven faq, I do not believe so. Unless it states you nominate a warmachine, it is still part of the unit, but read how it is stated in his (their) book and maybe it will clear up

the book says you can target either the bell or the unit with shooting attacks, so I think targeting it with the spells would work. Either way the bell it'self has a 4++ ward and MR 2, so it has a 2++ against spells. the unit has a 5++ against spells, which is far better than their against shooting attacks usually. targeting the bell with magic is usually pretty silly