Post in this topic your tactics against the Lizardmen.

Assumption: this is for roughly a 2000 point game against a lizardman army with both slaan and temple guard.

Description of Enemy Forces: Opponent has one or two large blocks of Saurus with full command and a skink priest out on the end of one. Main component of the army is a Slaan inside a unit of temple guard. Additional forces include three salamanders, some skink skirmishers, and a stegadon.

What I Run: Level 4 Prophetess, Lord with Virtue of Heroism on Barded Warhorse, BSB on Barded Warhorse with Dragonhelm, a unit of eleven knights errant, a unit of elevan KotR, forty-ish men at arms, two units of twenty bowmen with braziers, two trebuchets, and two units of five mounted yeomen. All units have musicians, while knights and men at arms have full command groups. The Prophetess has Lore of Heavens. There are points for more stuff (knights, magic items, etc...) that I did not specify.

Deployment: I place the mounted yeomen about one foot from either board edge. The plan is to keep any scouts (skinks with blowguns) from deploying in my rear areas. This keeps them away from my trebuchets... Then I place trebuchets towards the center, finding a decent line of sight for them. I have the bowmen in front of the trebuchets, giving the war machines some protection. The bowmen are five wide and four deep for ranks. I then deploy knights and men at arms as needed, keeping the general and BSB in range of MOST of my army. If there is a building on my side of the board, then the prophetess and men at arms go in there!

Strategy: It starts with what spells I have. I want Ice Shard Blizzard, Harmonic Convergence, Curse of the Midnight Wind, Comet of Cassandora, and Wind Blast. I hope to get four of those five. If forced to choose between Urannon's and Chain Lightning, then I take chain lightning.

After the scouts are placed, I have my fast cavalry scamper towards my center. I fully expect my opponent to go first, and stay as far back as possible.

Throughout the game, the lizardman player needs to keep his units is a support line of some sort. Opponent will move up in a line, trying to support his units. If you did everything right, your wizard (and her unit) will stay at least 24" inches away from his slaan. If the lizardmen get too close, push one unit back with the Wind Blast spell.

Lizardmen have mid-range and short range shooting. They have to advance. Often the slaan has lore of life, which is also close range. The skink priest will always have lore of heavens. Stay as far away from him as possible, and keep shooting. The knights can back up or move to threaten a flank charge. The fast cavalry can scamper about and threaten. Use your mobility to stay out of his spell arcs or range, and pepper away with bowmen and terebuchet. This is called "softening them up".

If you can isolate a small unit, then charge it. You can win a close game by killing some soft targets, then avoid combat with his better units.

If your opponent takes lore of metal with his slaan, keep out of range, and watch him miscast on some big spell. His miscast will kill a LOT of temple guard. He may use cupped hands, but if your wizard is more than 24" away from his wizard she can avoid taking damage...

MY experience of Lizardmen is at 1k-1500 pts.

[u]Your biggest concerns:[/u]

Magic - My oppoonent uses a level 2 Skink priest with cupped hands and a level 1 with an item that allows and extra spell. As Skink priest are bound by Heavens, he's very likely to get Chain Lightning. Look out for them throwing 6 dice at this on the first turn and throwing the miscast on your damsel (especially if she's in the knights block). I've been completely turn 1'd with this strategy as chain lightning is D6 S6 and bounces on a 3+. My opponent managed to roll very lucky and bounced 6S6 hits on Knight units and bowmen which combined with the S10miscast on the knights unit pretty much took me out the game!

Poison - Terradons can vanguard and then march into your deployment zone and fire poisoned shots at the treb on turn 1! If you see these, i'd keep your peg knights close and take them out straight away as they're crap in combat!

Salamander's - Devastating to lances! They can march 12" and then fire upto 18" (depending on artillery). Head on, that means it's getting a lot of your lance! It's only S3, but does -3 to armour save! So it's autohitting, wounding on 4+, reducing our saves to 5+/6++

The Oldblood With 4+ scaly skin and likely combined with items, you could be potentially facing a 1+rerollable/6++(parry) with a magic sword and decent WS (6?) its going to be hitting you, and with S6, with no armour saves...it could be tough! I've not really thought about how to beat him yet! HKB would be great be he will strike first!? Answers on a postcard please!

So you have a few problems,
Skink priests are not that hard to kill charge what ever unit they're hiding in with a lance, M@A, what ever, hit it with a Treb, etc... that skink Priest will fall like leaves in Autumn; they're not that hard to kill.
Javs are not as effective as Blowpipes, so Terradons are less effective than they once were, and in 8th, are usually considered to be ill used points (not a waste as they have their uses but, Camo skinks are considerably better). If they're still a problem, use a few small units of M@A or Archers as protection, Terradons can't take much punishment before they die or run away.
Salamanders can't stand and shoot, and they are not great in combat (Str 5 sure but still not that great), use that to your advantage!, 5 KE=problem solved. Don't give them a chance to fire, get into combat quickly and then press on, be aggressive against those small units. Plus if your opponent is playing points denial; the right thing to do is go after the small things and avoid his bigger blocks until you have no choice.
Its rare to see an Oldblood these days as most Lizardmen players take a Slann almost instantly, however they can be a combat monster when kitted out right, able to hold a candle to most Chaos lords depending on the load out. However our lords can too, HKB+other stuff, even VotJ and the right kit can kill any Oldblood fairly quickly. The point is don't fear for your characters, fear for your rank and file as that's what the Oldblood is usually kitted out for killing (+3 A sword etc...), And no you should strike first, they are only I 4 unless you have a great weapon.
Sorry it's not on a postcard, just shrink the font

FEEDBACK SCROLL FOR THE SLANN. Maybe the mirror as well.
Trebuchet skink mobs and don't let his salamanders anywhere NEAR your knights, they are high priority.

idea: spam his slann with dwellers below. since he only got S3, he'll be dead quickly.

take a lvl 1/lvl 2 who you don't mind miscasting. put the damsel just out of 24" out of the slann, but within 24" of the temple guard. it needs a little bit fitting, but it can be achieved if you approach slightly from the side (be out of the 24" of the slann, in case he has the ability to let you negate all 6's when casting) then throw in all your dice and pray for the irresisteble

this can also be done with a proph who is under the protection of throne of vines already

AREA51

one of my friends that has just started playing and was given a lizardmrm army to play with he has found a unit that is just cheese its a unit of temple guard unit with a slan i cant remember the exact amount of them i think that its around 54 and i would like some ideas on how to go at it so far all i can think of that has worked if charge him in the front and at least one flank then get a unit of Pegasus knights on one side then a paladin on a royal Pegasus in the rear then challenge the slan and he cant decline ( he doesn't run a champion)

THE THING IS THE SLAN DOESNT HAVENT TO ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE HE IS NOT TECHNICALLY IN THE FRONT FRANK ON ANY SIDE I ALSO STARTED LIZARDMAN AND THE THING IS WITH TEMPLE GUARD THE SLAN IS SUPER PROTECTED AND DOESNT NEED TO BE IN THE FRONT FOR HIS LD OR TO CAST SPELLS.

SO FAR THE THING IVE THOUGHT OF TAKING IS BANNER OF THE LADY THE THING IS THAT UNIT IS STUBBORN AT LD 9 W SLANN THOSE HOARDS R TOUGH BUT SLOW ALL LIZARMAN R IN 1 TEMPLE GUARD R 2 JUST WATCH OUT FOR LIGHT WIZARD SLANN POTENTIALLY ALWAYS STRIKE FIRST IN WS 10 W REORLL IF HE GETS CERTAIN SPELLS

one of my friends that has just started playing and was given a lizardmrm army to play with he has found a unit that is just cheese its a unit of temple guard unit with a slan i cant remember the exact amount of them i think that its around 54 and i would like some ideas on how to go at it so far all i can think of that has worked if charge him in the front and at least one flank then get a unit of Pegasus knights on one side then a paladin on a royal Pegasus in the rear then challenge the slan and he cant decline ( he doesn't run a champion)

Put simply, give 'em the run around, feed them chaff, shoot them with bows, and drop rocks/dwellers on their heads.

Using magic is always difficult against a slann bunker like that, as he's probably got becalming cogitation, meaning you don't get any 6's you roll within 24". Amber spear can be quite good if you roll it, a unit like that will be in a fair few ranks, so a bolt thrower shot will be good (if you give it to a mounted damsel she can nip round the side and get a flank shot off), and you might hit the frog if you're lucky.

With stubborn, a BSB, ld9, and cold blooded, it's highly unlikely you can make Temple Guard run. So kill as many of them as possible with shooting (and magic if you can), then combo-charge them with as many units as possible. m@a in the front, knights and pegs in the back and sides.

It's a difficult unit to get rid of, and all the while he's going to be magic-ing you. To lessen that, something like the feedback scroll/mirror combo would do nicely.

However, the good thing about that unit is he has a LOT of points sunk into it. He's not going to have much else in his army, which makes outmanouvering the temple guard a lot easier.

first of all, Erik le Breton, please use the caps lock key wisely, that would be appreciated.

When issued a challenge, the slann doesn't have to accept unless there is nowhere for him to hide (such as being engaged in all four sides, unlikely though) or is forced to accept by magic or a special rule (the gauntlet will do ^^). He is still the legal target when your (bret) lord issues a challenge, as the rules state clearly he just has to be in a unit which is in base contact (the rule doesn't require the slann to be in btb as well) and therefor the slann is a legal target for such an invitation

and that brings me to an other point, a nice valid tactic against lizies; get an HKB lord with a gauntlet. expect him on average to be in combat with the slann for 4 turns though, as there is about a 50% shot of getting a HKB and a 4+ ward save to prevent the slann from getting killed.

AREA51

Has anyone played against lizardman army since new book came up?

Yeah,

Stegadons are now die-hard i've played two games and lost two. The first time he wiped me by turn 4, i had poor dice 11 1's on 15 dice. The second was a solid victory to him on turn 6. How do you kill sregadons? HKB is unreliable andy opponent is prone to playing three blocks of sarus two stegs and a slann... Normall placed unit steg unit steg unit, with fluff on the edges...

I cant find their weakness so have coyly avoided lzdmn games whilst I find out how the hell to win..

Ed

I've played quite a few games now against the new Lizardmen since two of my friends from our local gaming group are passionate Lizardmen players.

I have encountered various builds of Lizardmen so far and have yet only lost 2 games out of 15. However, I have to mention that we're playing on a 1250 point level at the moment since we are engaging in an escalation league.

There are some really powerful units and character combos Lizardmen can come up with which makes them a tough enemy. Still, there is nothing that I'm really scared of at the moment but that might only be the case as long as my friends are not fielding any Slanns

I played one 2000-pt game against them, and there's a short write-up in the army-list discussion forum, as that's where I had posted my army list for review. (http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=87&func=view&id=142940&catid=14)

Disclaimer: it was my opponent's first game with the new army book.

I won the game pretty handily. He took a Slann/Temple Guard block, a Saurus block, two small Skink units with Kroxigors, a Stegadon, two Bastiladons, and a unit of Ripperdactyls (or whatever).

My trebs were amazing early on and took out half the Saurus unit and the Steg -- so that's one way to down a Steg. My HKB lord didn't get to KB a Bastiladon, but it ran easily due to being away from the Slaan's LD and reroll. I held up the Slaan/TG unit with chaff units -- first a Mtd Yeoman unit got in their face and forced them to charge, then an archer unit reformed and forced a charge. My M@A unit with the BSB then held them up for the rest of the battle with their steadfast rerollable 8 LD.

Bastiladons are pretty scary-looking models, and they have a great armor save, but they're not that scary in HtH otherwise. They can boost the Initiative of any units nearby, so watch out for Skinks getting to attack before your KE on the charge. They cast bound spells that could potentially be very damaging, but in this game my opponent never really had the spare power dice to try it.

The Steg didn't do anything, but that's because he was dead on turn 2 from getting hit twice by one of the trebs.

Ripperdactyls are scary. Do NOT let them get the charge on your knights, especially if they put this silly toad marker on your unit. When they charged, the mounts alone had 6 KB attacks each.

Otherwise, the Slaan are a little less powerful than in the past. However, the list you seem to be facing is probably one of the more effective ones, when the army bunkers together like they are. I'd concentrate trebs on one of the Stegadons between two units. If it hits, awesome -- d6 multiple wds and S10. If it scatters, there's a good chance it'll scatter onto a Saurus unit. Try to keep your deployment flexible so that you can smash into whatever flank gets hit the hardest by the trebs.

Had another game today, I Dishonourably decided to flee from a double-Steg charge on my Lord's unit... Let's just say they hesitated and I lost more than half my army turn two...

However I did manage to punch through his line with a unit of knights and kill a Bastiladon and Stegadon with my trebuchet, so your tactic seems to work... at least it would have if my knights hadn't been so damn honourable!

Ed