Hi lord,

last 2 tournamnet I played vs HE and he just popped the spell that lower ini by 1d3 and then cast purple sun on everything.The only thing ive found to stop that is to take scroll and silver mirror and to pray he dosent got a double 6.I cannot take the rebounce scroll i c'ant lets this spell pass.Anyone has an idea of how to get him.He is bunkered in a horde formation of like 45 spearmen.

Now this doesn't always work but really does anything always work, but you could gear up a duel lord/pal on a Pegasus with virtue of confidence and gauntlet of duel and maybe the ASF sword to counter his ASF (might not need to worry about this his mage wont be that strong). Might want to give him the grail vow as well just in case he nulls magic weapons in base contact.

Problem is he can just accept with hi champ first round so he can still get a round of magic off. You also have to make sure u get a few wounds so that you don't just break from combat. I would suggest if you take this route try to hit his flank or rear just for the added combat res unless you have other units there for support like peg knights.

My 2 cents

Sir Roys wrote:
Hi lord,

last 2 tournamnet I played vs HE and he just popped the spell that lower ini by 1d3 and then cast purple sun on everything.The only thing ive found to stop that is to take scroll and silver mirror and to pray he dosent got a double 6.I cannot take the rebounce scroll i c'ant lets this spell pass.Anyone has an idea of how to get him.He is bunkered in a horde formation of like 45 spearmen.

What a F*cked up tactic that is. Why doesn't he go play a game like MagicTG or something. A well, rant over, I am happy most tournaments here have decided to make 5 casting dice the maximum. I've no idea what to do about this tactic except try to assasinate him and go on the Magic-offensive (Feedback scroll + Mirror). Good luck.

I know that this is definetly not the type of adversarry I want but in tournament all is permitted except book of oeth and that is a god blessing because if it would be allowed he tare us appart on any double

There is a fairly easy solution to that concept: sit back and shoot! Purple Sun has a fairly short range.

I take two units of twenty bowmen and two trebuchets in a 2000 point army. Tossing in a level four prophetess with the lore of heavens can create a very potent, long range attack force. That still leaves me plenty of points for a fairly balanced force. Focus all your efforts against the spear unit with the mage in it. Soon enough, the elves will start taking panic tests.

You could also try the blunt option- bunkered in a unit you say? Send in 9 KE/KotR to assasinate him, deploy opposite and march straight at him, aim for a turn 2 charge.

The price of the knight lance is far less than the cost and tactical value of a HE mage lord, and with their 2+ saves you are unlikely to lose many knights before you can pour an entire flank of the lance into attacking him.

If he sees it coming and abandons the unit, treb him, comet, thunderbolt, anything and everything once he breaks cover.

I do agree with the ranged combat option against HE though- Comet, chain lightning, trebs and archers at range will do more damage to them than they can do to you. If the wizard steps forward to use Purple Sun, make sure that he is stepping into charge range of a knight unit to do so and keep declaring charges- even if only a single knight can get into base contact, don't think it isn't worth it unless you can kill him that turn. Wear down his wounds even by 1 and he might well kill himself miscasting, and it makes him far easier to pick off with the silver mirror/feedback scroll.

Bear in mind that Grail Knights are initiative 5 and very resistant to purple sun- deploy them opposite the mage, concentrate on stopping the 'd3 initiative' spell, he will try to cast it with less dice. Then just let purple sun through if you have to. In short- it's the combination of effects that is killing you, accept that you are going to take some casualties in a HE magic phase, and stop the effect that is easier to stop out of the pair.

If he is putting all of his dice into both spells every turn, the feedback scroll/silver mirror combo is your best defence. Silver mirror the first one, then feedback scroll purple sun. Accept the casualties for the higher chance of killing the mage.

The one combo my dad runs you will have to completely kill the unit he is in. He runs him with the item where only magic weapons can hurt him and the other thing where magic weapons don't hurt him.. whatever. So only magic spells can kill him or combat res. He will be in a bunker of 25+ white lions

ok that sounds like massively broken rules, surely you can't have both of those?

unfortunately, he can (though I don't know about tournament rules, there it may be banned though??)
however, the grail vow is your friend here. Since they have magical attacks (magical attacks which aren't caused by magic weapons), they can still hurt the wizard. However, this is still very tricky....

other way to go is magic targeting the wizard (so like dwellers from below, or soul leeching {death magic} though that's not available for brets... )

AREA51

EDIT: the costs of that combo item is near 80 points, so if he's got that item combo, he can't spend that many points on nasty arcane items, of which HE has enough

fair enough, that is evil tbh, grail vow ftw hehe.


Right i quite often play against a high elf player at my local store, although only 1500 points which sucks, would rather play more.
His regular list is 5 or 6 elf chariots running around on their own, one of which has a mage lord on (lvl 4). He also has 2 other lvl 1 mages on foot with a unit of archers each. Finally he has a prince on a griffon.

now normally i manage to get a pretty close game, think we have only ever drawn actually, but would love some advice on how to give myself an edge here.
The most recent list i used was a grail lord on a hippogyrph with HKB, lvl 2 damsel on a mount (beasts), questing paladin with sword of quest and bsb with questing vow.
i use 3 lances of knights, 2 KoTR with 9 and a banner (one with the damsel in) and a unit of 7 questings with full command (my questing paladin and bsb go in here)
i also take a treb of course,

now i obviously i get screwed over in the magic phase with only 1 caster in my list against his 3, he normally goes for heavens and beasts on his guys whilst i normally have beasts
also atm the hippo lord is only in the list for a laugh and because i want to have a fight against his griffon with it, i will probably drop him as soon as i find a nice model to replace him (im looking at chaos knight conversions for grail knights)
im toying with the idea of the green knight in the list for fun

but anyway, bit of a sidetrack there, anyone got any suggestions for this?

i am also rather new to the fantasy game (although been a 40k player for years) so if it is just a case of tactics for this i would really appreciate any advice on that front

Sir Thomas, as many have said, against High Elves you want archers, archers and a few more archers.

Elves are notoriously vulnerable to shooting, and if he packs chariots then you're at an even greater advantage, because they have to either 1) waste turns getting around your archers, which is especially nasty for them since they can't march or 2) risk getting their chariots torn apart by the archers' stakes (remember, they count as fences now!). Also of note: archers at the same cost as one chariot will deal about 1.5 wounds per turn at short range, 1 at long range. Assuming one volley at long range, one at short range and a stand and shoot reaction, you are looking at a very dead chariot, or at least one that is so hopelessly wounded that it will be killed in the following melee.

Questing Knights are overkill against the elves: get a lance of errant knights with the errantry banner and they will do the same for a much lower cost and have more survivability. To ensure they get the charge against those chariots, consider replacing your questing paladin with one with the Virtue of the Impetuous Knight. Speaking of errant knights: against lion chariots, errants are just as effective as knights of the realm, but are cheaper.

If/when you drop beakies, get another damsel and have one damsel carry the silver mirror and the other the feedback scroll. You can kill the most dangerous of his mages in one turn. Or, if you want to play it safe, take a dispel scroll instead of a feedback scroll to nullify one turn of magic.

Consider getting an unkillable lord (dawnstone + enchanted shield or gromril great helm + normal shield). The elves won't be able to hurt him even if they charge, but oh boy will he hurt back and, most importantly, he can be placed in front of chariots to prevent them from charging your knights (so your knights are the ones who get the charge). Finally, pegasus knights, or a paladin on a pegasus, have more movement than those pesky chariots, and are highly likely to kill them in one turn.

wow, some nice advice in there mate thanks,

yeah i have been looking at ways to equip my lord, those sound like some nice combinations, i like the sound of un killable hehe.

charging has always been the issue against this guys army, last match we stood for 3 turn with me right in the edge of his charge range (2 inches more than mine annoyingly) trying to lure him in, really want to avoid those impact hits he can put out.

my original BSB was mounted on a peg (at the time i just had no other model) i might try putting him back in to see what he can do, if i give him virtue of disdain then he hates pretty much everything in the army as all the chariots have an archer on board i think

the 200 points i save from a gryph would be very nice though, definitely a damsel in there, although i suppose if i shave enough points from swapping the questing knights for KE then i could put a prophetess instead, need to work the points out

thanks again for the help mate

Alright guys, I need some help. I just played against a death star horde of 50 White Lions and I have no idea what to do. They just don't seem to have the weaknesses that other elf units have and I simply cannot grind them down through attrition. T

Dwellers - Void Stone cancels my magic phase for one turn, he makes sure to get these guys into combat before I can cast this or makes sure to get my Prophetess' unit into combat before turn 2. Also Wyssan's Wildform so that they only fail on a 5+.

Trebuchets - Flesh to Stone, Wyssan's Wildform, or the 5+ ward spell that he can 1 dice are easy counters to this, especially with the Banner of Sorcery to give him +1d3 dice. The rest of his units don't matter if I can't kill his horde. Also, a 5+ armor save against our rocks.

Men at Arms - Again, the defensive options outweigh our ability to put the hurt on these guys.

They're tough to handle with Stubborn, Ld 8, 30 S6 attacks, re-rolls to hit (even against our Paladins and Grail Knights ) Always Strikes First, and a 5+ armor save that becomes a 3+ against shooting. They seem to have a defense against anything we could possibly throw at them, and only become even better with magical support (something High Elves can do quite easily with Book of Hoeth and Banner of Sorcery). Although they can be worn down by attrition, I would need close to 100 M@A to outlast the unit and I don't see any other way of dealing with them.

Seems to me that you are losing to his magic not to his White Lions. Kill that mages soon, at any cost. Suicidal pegasus paladin works nice for this.

About the White Lions:

Grial Reliqae should hold em for 2-3 turns.
Maa should hold em for 2-3 turns and kill some.
Skirmish bowmen conga line in a forest should hold em for 2 turns.

A lord with Crown of command, Gromril Great helm, Sword of swift slaying, Dragonbane gem should hold em for all the battle with a life caster and bsb nearby. As long as you dispel Vauls unmaking.

Heavens to pull them away could be useful.

QK with characters wall buffed with panns pelt or flesh to stone could work too.
Pal1: Enchanted shield, Dawnstone. Morning star.
Pal2: Insignia of the Quest, Charmed shield, Gold Sigil sword, BSB.
Pal3: Gromril great helm, Obsidian trinket. Morning star, shield.

And if I'm not mistaken, you can cast dwellers in combat, but you are limited to targets that are right in front of you.

Best option, as seems to be with all deathstars is to send chaff to them: Mounted yeomen, skirmish bowmen...even pegasus and paladins, kill the rest of their army. While you trebuchet and dwellers them. Once the mage is dead they will start to drop.

Ignore the unit completely, maybe feed it some chaff to divert it from your units and kill the rest of the army while continueing to land rocks on it..