Does it really gives a +1 to armor save? The 6+ save in its descritpion can be vieved like a replacement of a part of a heavy armor... So, when you put on a gromril great helm you have a 5+ heavy armor and a reroll for failed armor saves?

Any opinions?

Well theres no notion of stacking it in anyway so if you have Heavy Armour then the 6+ save of the Helm effectively does nothing. You do get to re-roll your saves though.

Aramoro

I thought so also. But i found here on the forums a lot of posts regarding gromril great helm with opinions that it can stack your armor save to 1+ in combination with shield heavy armor and a barded mount...

Normally magic helms do that, the ones like Dragon Helm in the rulebook do. But Gormril Great Helm doesn't say that and nor are there any generic rules for stacking armour saves. The FAQ doesn't cover it either so I would have to say it does not stack.

Aramoro

I have always played it that it stacked, I'll check my rulebook later on when I'm home.

I think it's fairly obvious that it should stack, that is the intention of the item. I just can't find anything which says 5+ save + 6+ save == 4+ save.

Aramoro

While there's no clear definition that it stacks, it has always been stated in the BRB rules that different pieces of equipment stack. A shield stacks with light armour, so does a helm.

Aramoro wrote:
I think it's fairly obvious that it should stack, that is the intention of the item. I just can't find anything which says 5+ save + 6+ save == 4+ save.

Aramoro
Shield for example has 6+ save, heavy armor 5+, mount 6+ and so on... and it stack regularly... So if that is the only doubt, than it is clear that it should be stacked.
In the description of gromril great helm says that it "adds to the regurlar armour".. So.., that would be pretty logical that it confers a 1+ armour save to the fully armoured Bret character...

Shields only stack because it says they do in the rulebook explicitly.

I think the stacking armour saves rule is one everyone knows but isn't actually in the rules anywhere. If anyone can show an example of generic stacking armour saves then feel free to post it.

Aramoro

It obviously stacks as a 6+ save would be no good for anyone that can wear it!

totally agree. cheers for my 2+ rr as bsb

Marshal Henry Penglarron wrote:
It obviously stacks as a 6+ save would be no good for anyone that can wear it!

I would tend to agree it is obvious but do you want to back that up with any kind of rules?

Thats the thing here, it doesn't stack as per the rules in the Rulebook so you may find yourself having an issue at a tourney trying to claim your 2+.

Aramoro

I never have seen anyone who wouldn't agree that the gromril great helm gives an additional point of AS.
The text states that the helm may be worn in addition to normal armour, so why is this even a question ?
Page 43 of the BRB shows how to calculate AS. It states there that there may be other modifications to armour saves apart from light/heavy armour and shields, mentioning - but not limiting it to - riding a mount.

Armour of the aguiliuf specifically states that it replaces the heavy armour and shield for a 4+ save. Gromril greathelm does not say it replaces any armour and there for the armour save stacks.

You're not quite getting this.

Armour saves can be modified by other things, Mounts give you +1 to your armour save, so do shield it specifically says that. All the helms in the rulebook say they give increase your armour save by 1 point.

Gomril Great Helm doesn't say that. Yes a Shield has a 6+ save and Heavy Armour is a 5+ save, and together they are a 4+ save. But that is because the rulebook explicitly states that shields give you 1+ to your armour save, not because 6+ and 5+ = 4+.

If you can find a rule which says a 6+ and 5+ saves means a 4+ save in a generic sense then you are right. And I actually mean a Rule, from the rule book not 'Well everyone knows they stack'

Armour of the aguiliuf specifically states that it replaces the heavy armour and shield for a 4+ save. Gromril greathelm does not say it replaces any armour and there for the armour save stacks.

Why does it stack? Where in the Rulebook does it say a 5+ and 6+ save means 4+

Aramoro