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Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed. PDF Print E-mail
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Written by QuiGonJinn   
Friday, 05 February 2010

Written by QuiGonJinn, with added commentary supplied by tomahawk, Skaveslayer, and davieste.

If you have come to this Tactica, you are looking to learn about the best way to use Virtues with your Paladins and Lords. This guide will not list the rules, nor points totals, but it will provide you with a tactical and competitive look at each Virtue.

Virtue of the Penitent: Useless. No magic items, have to be on a horse, and the only thing you get from it is your basic Ld, but if you're dead, that's nothing special.
The only use that you can get out of this is by taking the Grail Vow and sending him at a block of weak, fear causing, combat units that you can feasibly hold up for turn after turn.T
 

Virtue of Knightly Temper: It has its uses, but the restriction on no magic weapons hurts it. Expensive as well, so if you are giving this to someone, you really need to make sure that they are hitting and often. Isoldue's Tress would work well with this, or The Armour of Aiglulf. But to do either you need the Lord. And there are better Lord combinations.

This virtue can be combined with the Tress to make a mess of characters too.D

 
Virtue of Heroism: Our answer to anything big and scary enough to cause our Knights headaches. If you are taking this, kit appropriately. Most often on a Pegasus to counter any fliers they might have, and taking the Enchanted Shield to mitigate the decreased AS for riding said Pegasus. Also, the restriction of non magic weapon applies here, so no trying to get in the Sword of the Lady's Champion or the like. All you are allowed are basic mundane Lances/GW/Morning Stars/Hand weapons.

Virtue of Stoicism: Another BSB, but with no range or no combat res...Wait how is he a BSB? Seriously though, the added re-roll if your BSB isn’t around might prove life saving. It also might not. This is again, an expensive Virtue.

Virtue of the Ideal: Our stat boosting Virtue. It is still pricey, and it also prevents the Generalship, and on top of that incurs a Ld penalty, but the boosts you get from it may prove to be of use. It is situational, like the Stoicism Virtue.

There are another two uses; Pegasus Paladin for extra hitting power or for a Paladin in a unit of Knights Errant with the errantry banner and treat them like they are frenzied.D

Virtue of the Impetuous Knight: A sneaky, underhanded way to try and get a 22" charge, but if it works, who is to blame you? I would not take this personally, as again, you get one shot at it, and if you fluff it, you fluff bad. Again, it is an expensive and situational Virtue.

However, not everyone is of this opinion. The following is supplied by tomahawk as another view of the use of the Impetuous Knight:

It's very useful to disrupt tactical experienced players who set up their main units just 1 inch beyond your charge range, for that one more round of magic/shooting, or maybe counter charge with 14 inch cavalry if you close the gap. That extra inch charge range which is basically guaranteed and can be very useful.

When you take it sometimes but not at other times, the threat of this virtue can force the opponent who thinks you have this virtue into manoeuvres he wouldn't have made if this perceived threat wasn't there.

Making a charge, which your opponent "knows" you cannot make, can be game-winning.
If opponent falls into the trap of the perceived threat, he will make errors.

If you minimize the extra distance you have to roll, the virtue will be more worthwhile.
Everything over 1 inch is gambling.
1 inch means a 100% success rate
2 inches means 16.7% chance of failure on the charge
3 inches means 33.3% chance of failure on the charge
4 inches means 50% chance of failure on the charge
5 inches means 66.7% chance of failure on the charge
6 inches means 83.4% chance of failure on the charge

A well placed gamble can win you the battle, but if the dice are against you that unit will be in Peril.
Another thing it's also good for is to catch units that will flee from your charge. In effect you reduce infantry to a 1d6 flee distance and cavalry/flyers/etc to 2d6.T

Virtue of Audacity: Against the stronger enemies out there (and there are more than a few, believe me) this may prove to be of use. However, it is of no use against S4 opponents, and if you are going against S5+, then you should be prepared to bring along the appropriate safety measures, them being a good armour save, a strong Ward, and perhaps Regeneration as well. Also, never be too far from your fellow Knights.

Virtue of Duty: Our one per army, and there is only one model in my opinion who really benefits from it, the BSB. Couple him together with a Warbanner, and we have a static +3 CR before we even factor in unit, outnumber, banner, or ranks. However, it is only worthwhile while the General is alive and slaying, so be sure your General don't run away due to some accident or is slain because of a missed charge. Bad dice rolls will happen regardless of planning

Virtue of the Joust: Only available on the charge, though what it does is it increases your chance of hitting. Usable only on lances, so it kills any chances of a Questing Character. Though this and the Heartwood Lance brings a very nasty hit/wound re-rolls. Only available on the Lord, again, due to the total of those two alone being 60 pts.

Virtue of Confidence: This Virtue lends itself to the following Lord setup:
Lord
Barded Warhorse
Grail Vow
Virtue of Confidence
Gauntlet of the Duel
The Grail Shield
Mantle of Damsel Elena
Lance

Granted, the above is expensive, but it makes a character with the 2+ armour save, 4+ Ward, he can challenge all he wants, and the enemy can't help but accept, meaning you can do your best to obtain full OK each time, but this is best used against unit Champions. Heroes and Lords that are combat oriented will give him a hard enough time. Only do the above if you are eager to test your luck. A sub version of it on a Paladin is to take the Armour of Aiglulf and the Virtue.

Virtue of Noble Disdain: This Vow makes the character and his unit immune to running from the most un-chivalrous of weapons, and it also means that they will slay those troops with even greater contempt. Best used on a Paladin riding a Pegasus, so he can be a warmachine hunter/missile troop hunter. Be warned, you want to make sure that the enemy's static combat res is not more than what you can dish out, because if it is, your Paladin is going to be toast post haste. Or you can put this on a Paladin, stick him in a unit of Realm Knights and let the enemy have at it. No real place on a Lord, for there are better virtues, or lack of virtues, for him.

Virtue of Purity: So we get the Blessing! (pssst...Grail Vow is about the same cost, doesn't take up magic pts allowance, and does much the same thing) Though the main difference is this is the improved ward all the time. (pssst...the Dragons Claw does the same thing, but also affords you immunity of another kind for a few points more) Don't get this Virtue unless you are eager for the always 1/3 ward, which you can still lose.

Virtue of Discipline: The second cheapest Vow by points, but not so by usefulness. This Vow will help even the odds if you are the type of player to use small Knight units, with little US to try and outnumber your opponent's forces. Against units which you yourself outnumber, this ceases to apply. Also, be careful, just because they don't get their CR for outnumber, you will still run away if you are defeated by Fear/Terror units.

Virtue of Empathy: And the last but not the least Virtue. The cheapest by points, but it extends the Ld bubble he has if he is not the general, to all the peasants, and also could save you 4 points if you want to have a foot Knight. Best used on Paladins, and this virtue has no place on a Lord.
If you do not have enough peasant models to make a this Virtue is not worthwhile. Besides, with the Peasant's duty Ld boost and the General's bubble, there are enough ways to boost the peasants’ already.S

 

Thank you for reading this Guide. We hope it will help you in deciding which Virtues you wish to use or experiment with.

 

Last Updated ( Monday, 08 February 2010 )
 
Discuss (10 posts)
Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed. Feb 09 2010 07:39
This thread discusses the Content article: Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed.

I see you rewrote it - definitely an improvement!

I do think that you could include a few more things. The item combo's Davieste gave in the thread, and the drawback to having to challenge on VoConfidence I mentioned.


But all in all, good job!
Re:Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed. Feb 09 2010 07:51
Thank you for the praise Skavenslayer.
I will be waiting perhaps until Saturday before I make any further changes. If by then I see something that deserves a place in the Tactica, I shall include it.
There is just one problem when writing a Tactica that I have noticed on several forums:
1. You cannot please everyone.
2. If you try to please everyone, it begins to end up looking like a forum thread...and then what's the point of condensing it down into one article?
Re:Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed. Feb 15 2010 02:37
Nice article!

A nice use for the Joust virtue that I have found at same points is to include the armor that rerolls 1s to wound (forget the name). Against rank and file at S6 your usually only needing 2+s to wound, so it makes for a nice change.

I liked it though! Gave me some new ideas!
Re:Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed. Feb 17 2010 14:56
quick question to virtues...

If I want to buy the same Virtue for another paladin, it costs double, for example 70 points. The paladin has allowance of 50 points maximum for virtue. Is it possible to give the second same virtue to another paladin? or it is possible only to lord....

Thanks for answer
Re:Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed. Feb 17 2010 15:55
... Silly question

You just asked: If I have a 50 pt allowance for magic items, can i take a 70 pt item?

Nope, unfortunately- lords only at that point!

-Jean-
Re:Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed. Feb 21 2010 04:50
QuiGonJinn wrote:
Thank you for the praise Skavenslayer.
I will be waiting perhaps until Saturday before I make any further changes. If by then I see something that deserves a place in the Tactica, I shall include it.
There is just one problem when writing a Tactica that I have noticed on several forums:
1. You cannot please everyone.
2. If you try to please everyone, it begins to end up looking like a forum thread...and then what's the point of condensing it down into one article?

A tactica is a personal opinion on how to achieve a goal.
And as such there are multiple ways of achieving any goal, there is always something that will hampen any tactic and there are always sub-normal means of achieving any goal which shouldn't even be mentioned in a tactica.

I like your tactica! Keep up the good work. It's better to be creative and thinking than, uh, something else.
Re:Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed. Feb 22 2010 04:40
In general I do have to agree with most of what is written here except that I think the Virtue of Knightly Temper should be rethought. That virtue is the best one that we have for killing massed R&F models. If you're going for the achievement of that goal then all you need is a normal lance and with the needing of 3's to hit and 2's to wound the majority of the time is more than good enough for the standard units in the game anyway. While other virtues, like the Virtue of the Joust, allow you to be more reliable this virtue also helps you out in later turns when the good strength on the charge becomes mediocre so the more times you hit something the more chances they opponent has of failing.

Those are just my 2 cents on the Virtues.
Re:Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed. Feb 22 2010 07:08
Marquis Joubert wrote:
While other virtues, like the Virtue of the Joust, allow you to be more reliable this virtue also helps you out in later turns when the good strength on the charge becomes mediocre so the more times you hit something the more chances they opponent has of failing.


I was looking through the virtues yesterday and found out that virtue of knightly temper only works on the charge. Thats pity

It says for each attack that the knight hits and wounds with on the charge ... he may make an additional attack.

So I'm not sure if this virtue is so high fly. I planned to take it in an upcoming battle but I think I will reconsider it.

Overall I think the article is nicely written!

//Albin
Re:Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed. Feb 22 2010 17:44
The article seems fine to me despite the Virtue of Confidence which I disagree with...
Out of all those virtues 3 I take most commonly:

Virtue of Knightly Temper
Ideal for killing rank&file units. You score around 4 kills in the charge + knights + SCR
No need to fight second turn... Combined with the Tress of Isoulde:

4 att -> 2.67 hits -> 2.78 wounds
2.78 att -> 2.31 hits -> 1.93 wounds
2.78 + 1.93 = 4.71 wounds -> 3.93 kills

Ideal for crucial combats that have to be WAAC.

Virtue of Confidence
Good at killing everything that can be challanged and to increase the effectiveness of the Lord when fighting ordinary units. Works only with the Gauntlet of the Duel. Unfortunately does not always work on VC... It raises the abilities of the Character carrying it as every roll is re-rolled! If you take a combo with the Birth Sword, you can be pretty sure of those 4 CR pts for killing the Champion + 3 pts of overkill:
Here's a duel with GG (using lance):
With VoC: 4 att-> 2.67 (r-r) 3.56 hits -> 2.96 (r-r) 3.45 wounds -> 2.88 kills
Without VoC: 4 att -> 2.67 hits -> 2.23 wounds -> 1.85 kills.
One less killed! One CR less scored...
You do not have to waste so much forces ensuring a victory when you take it.

Virtue of the Audacity

Much better for killing monsters than the virtue of heroism and also usable in case of a really strong opponent. ABOMINATION: BEWARE!!!

Sometimes I use Impetous knight but very very rarely...
________________________________
May the Lady guide your lance...
Zythaar of Mousillon
Re:Bretonnia Tactica: Virtues in 7th Ed. Feb 22 2010 21:22
Touche my friend I completely missed the whole on the charge part. However that doesn't change my opinion. It is still the best rank and file killing virtue that we have. Not only this but it isn't limited to the Lance and could be used with a GW, not that I would, but that idea is still there. I mean if I could take a lance on my BSB right now this is the virtue that I would give to him. It would provide some very nice killing power for him.
There are too many comments to list them all here. See the forum for the full discussion.

Discuss this item on the forums. (10 posts)
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