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A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101 PDF Print E-mail
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Written by Skavenslayer   
Thursday, 11 June 2009
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A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101
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A.T.T.A.C.K.! Assaulting Thoughtfully: Tactical Advice for Charging with Knights.  

These articles are an attempt to give beginners and intermediate players some tools with which they can improve their playing skills, in the form of basic principles and maneuvers you can use with your cavalry.There is a ton of advice on the net about how to write army lists, and on which units to use against which opponents, but very little of it shows you how to do that, so I decided to make some diagrams. 

Some of it is more for competitive games, some of it is more general. If there are longer bits of theory, I will put the conclusions in big text so you can just skim over the text and still get the basic point.

 

 

 

Parental advisory: this next bit contains a bit of theory and even –gasp!- some numbers.Surprised Casual gamers (those who like to just charge anything and see what happens) are advised to go to the next article, which will have more pictures.

 

Step 1a: What kind of combats do I need stay out of?  

Well, this should be simple! A big knight unit should break anything it charges, the nice sales bloke at GW told me so!

He lied!

The boys can win the combat against almost anything, but actually breaking something is not as easy. Many units have good Ld, and Battle Standard Bearers are quite popular nowadays. That means you have to hit them hard before they break. Real hard! 

But I do hit them hard, I have strong units!

An example: a standard Skaven Clanrat block is 30 strong for 165 points inc musician and standard. A block of 8 KotR, full command with a basic paladin is about 300 points.  

bretskav1a.jpg         

 

 

 

 

 

This should be a pushover...

You roll 5 wounds, fairly average. the Combat Resolution is:

Skaven 3 ranks, standard, outnumber (US 24)= 5

Bret     2 ranks, standard,  5 wounds caused  = 8 

Ha! Won by 3, that'll teach them! Okay, now for the break test...

With the general nearby, the rats have a Ld of 10. This will allow them to test on a 7.  

Okay, that’s not spectacular but still a good chance of breaking.

The rats actually have a 58% chance of holding! And you were lucky the BSB wasn’t around... 

Oh no, they passed their break test! But I can still win this, can’t I?

Unfortunately, the chance of breaking them in subsequent turns is negligible, since only 3 of your models can attack, most of which is at S3 and won’t do much to them. And if an unlucky combat round doesn’t see you off, sooner or later one of the many other Skaven units will charge your flank and send you running.  

Well, I’m faster! I’ll just outrun them and try again

The risk of getting caught is very real, especially if there are 2 units pursuing. You also lose your banner and your blessing. Even worse, if you rally you can’t move, so you’ll be a sitting duck for the follow-up charge by the pursuers, who will probably be in charge range. And without a banner you stand even less chances of winning! 

Well, it’s only one unit lost. I have more.

Firstly, it is a hammer unit, which are essential to victory and of which you will only have a few.Secondly, let’s look at the balance on the table (assuming nothing else has been killed yet): 

If you destroyed the Skaven unit:                       

.......................Bret.........................Skaven

VP..................265..............................0

Models left......2000 pts....................1865 pts 

If they destroyed your unit:                       

.......................Bret.........................Skaven                 

 VP...................0.............................400

Models left......1700 pts....................2000 pts 

Whoah! A 465 point swing in models! And a 665 point swing in VP!!

Even worse, not only are you now 400 points behind in VP, your army is now 15% smaller than his, making it more difficult to still pull off a win. 

But maybe I had a unit in support! Or maybe my other hammer unit did break its target! Or...

That is correct, this was an isolated example, and we have made some assumptions. But it is a very typical situation, and even if circumstances are different the conclusion remains: 

Throwing expensive units into uncertain combats and hoping for luck will often lose you the game!



Last Updated ( Thursday, 15 October 2009 )
 
Discuss (10 posts)
A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101 Jun 22 2009 06:56
This thread discusses the Content article: A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101

Good article. These are truly essential basic thoughts to winning with the bretts. Even though the new army books have made a lot of armies more potent. All of them fear us. Especially if you play according to A.T.T.A.C.K principles. Happy to tread from you again.
Re:A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101 Jun 22 2009 18:19
So do you think the Ld 4 guideline is the right level to aim for?

Or should we play more risky?
Re:A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101 Jun 22 2009 18:25
Well I agree with you that ld 4, is something to strive for if possible. We all have to take in account luck. I mean you can assume that your Knights generally will kill quite a few rats, WS4 v 3, S5 v T3. You take these things in account, hope for the best and Pray to the Lady
Re:A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101 Jun 23 2009 11:02
To be sincere I aim for LD 5-6 but luck sometimes can turn the battle....Yesterday, my 9 GK with Warbanner and BSB, charged the enemy's 4 elven heavy knights....3 hits, 2 wounds, both saved. I lost a knight, and I was sure to win the combat.....until he rolled 6 with that damned elven banner that adds points to combat resolution so my GK lost the battle,ran away and were overruned.....That made me think about the right strategy to use....What should I do in such a situation? Charging and hope for luck?
Re:A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101 Jun 23 2009 12:51
Shoot them up before hand!

I enjoyed reading the tactics article for sure! I generally shoot for a 4 - 5 when I go charging in, but I try to hold out as long as I can on my charges, letting my artillery and shooting try to work it in and position my knights for the best charge possible.

It sounds to me Avenger that your luck just wasn't with ya. A full unit of GK and a BSB charging ANYTHING should put a hurting down, and it seems like you just didn't roll well. I mean thats like 12 WS5 S6 attacks! Not including the BSB and horses!
Re:A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101 Jun 23 2009 16:07
scurrdi wrote:
Shoot them up before hand!
A full unit of GK and a BSB charging ANYTHING should put a hurting down, and it seems like you just didn't roll well. I mean thats like 12 WS5 S6 attacks! Not including the BSB and horses!


It depends on the unit. For example the plague beares of nurgle with a bsb herald of nurgle equiped with the banner that gives stubborn 12 inches around to daemons, or the grave guard with a Wigth Lord equiped with the Drakenhof banner can easily take the charge of this unit with minimal loses...
Re:A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101 Jun 23 2009 20:20
Yeah, I would agree with you completely there, but his situation he had faced off against a unit of elven knights.

There are plenty of units out there that can hold up to a GK charge. Thats one of the reasons I don't field them in smaller games. They're powerful, but there is alot out there that can shrug off that kind of power only to send it packing.
Re:A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101 Jun 24 2009 06:58
The Avenger of Quenelles wrote:
Yesterday, my 9 GK with Warbanner and BSB, charged the enemy's 4 elven heavy knights....3 hits, 2 wounds, both saved. I lost a knight, and I was sure to win the combat.....until he rolled 6 with that damned elven banner that adds points to combat resolution so my GK lost the battle,ran away and were overruned.....That made me think about the right strategy to use....What should I do in such a situation? Charging and hope for luck?
In Warhammer, no situation is certain. Like Scurrdi said, you were unlucky. Very unlucky, actually.

But just using the guidelines, would you have reduced him to Ld 3 (because of the BSB ) on average?
Your average is a bit over 3 wounds, his a bit over 0.
Your static is 6 (2 rnk, US, St, BSB, WB ), his 2 plus D6 = 5,5. So your avg win is by 3,5 on the charge. That puts him on Ld 5,5 with BSB reroll, not low enough.



So what to do? a few options:

- Avoid the unit. keep him running after MY.

- Try to get in a rear-charge as well. PK are good for this.

- The source of his power is the BSB. 2 wounds, 2plus armor, no ward. A lord with Virtue of the Joust has a good chance of bagging him in one go. NOT VoConfidence, or you'll get stuck with the champ!
Also, since the unit is small, he has no Lookout sir against Trebs, and even arrows will randomise on him.


It's annoying that you have to spend so much effort on this unit, but they don't call it the "banner of win" for nothing.


Good luck!
Martin
Re:A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101 Jun 24 2009 07:28
That Elven Banner.

I duel against HE often. As soon as you see a relatively small unit of elven knights with a BSB in them know that +1d6 trick is being tried. Kill the BSB. I had read thru the army book and suspected the trick. Killed his BSB to my dismay and his delight. My main problem at the moment is with Vampires,Demons and DE.
Re:A.T.T.A.C.K. - Combat 101 Jun 24 2009 20:06
Can I attack the bsb with the Knights on the second and third rank? If I remember well, in a faq they stated that you may choose your knight's target.....
However, yes, I think Skavenslayer is right,I should attack the strongest units with multiple charges....
There are too many comments to list them all here. See the forum for the full discussion.

Discuss this item on the forums. (10 posts)
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