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The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units

Written by tomahawk
Sunday, 15 June 2008
Well the title says it all.. Many new players think 20 is a marvelous size for Men at arms ([email protected]). Probably because the Battalion box comes with 20 of them. Here is the explaination why it is not a good unitsize. Why is it so stupid to make a unit of [email protected] with full command exactly 20 big..? Well one wound from shooting or magic will lower the 3 ranks you have paid for instantly to 2 full ranks.. Also getting the outnumbering bonus in close combat will be very doubtfull. And [email protected] need full ranks and outnumbering bonuses to win the combat.. If they actually manage to kill something in combat, it is a time for much rejoicing;) Don't count on it.. [email protected] need fullranks, banner, musician and a shot at the outnumbering bonus to have any chance of winning a combat.. +5CR and a 4+save makes it a decent battleunit So use units of about 25 if you want them to hold ground with them.. those 25 extra points investment make it a far better unit.... If you want units that are there as bait, use units of about 10, the minumum unitsize you can buy, perhaps with a musician for those rally test..(if they survive the battle you can even claim table quarters with them:) Invest 55 points get 100 back) That are the 2 unitsizes that work quite well. Small support units of 10 and big battle units of 25.. Don't have enough models to field a unit of 25? Archers model could be easily build as [email protected] without shield.. mix a few of them in the formation.. Or even unconverted models :)
Last Updated ( Tuesday, 01 June 2010 )

Discuss (10 posts)

Harolde Bartholemew de Raconter

The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units Jun 15 2008 12:37

This thread discusses the Content article: The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units

Well Tomahawk,

Now you've got a link you can direct people to - rather than typing it all out each time.

You know, there's a few other common arguements you throw out that you could do that with.

Harolde

MutantMaggot

Re:The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units Jun 15 2008 13:13

A good piece of tactical advice, and very useful. Not a peak of literature, but still very good, and it serves its purpose well.

Grimmwulf der Wütende

Re:The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units Jun 20 2008 07:08

Well, i mostly take 22 or 23 [email protected] in a unit. But I don't expect my peasants to kill anything anyway. i just have them on the table to amuse me with their deaths. By expecting them to do nothing i often get surprised when they actually have an effect on the game. its satisfieing to say "your ***** have been killed by my peasants, hahaha" (this does not work for goblins or gnoblars or skaven, though. So to say, if I ever have the need of a few more points i cut the peasants budget and field only 20 of them. Maybe they are better than a knight, but if i have to choose between 2 or 3 knights and a unit of [email protected] i'd take the knights... even if the [email protected] unit strength sometimes drops below 15 and 20...

Anyway, to get back to the topic a good piece of advice for everyone who wants to actually use their [email protected] more more efective.

Skavenslayer

Re:The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units Jun 20 2008 07:46

funny thing is, I used to have exactly the same opinion as Tomahawk expresses here, take either 10 or 25.
But strangely enough, I'm now running 15 with St&Mu for 90 points, and I actually like them!

10 without a standard is something people just ignore. They can't even flank stuff without getting beat up!

But 15 with standard looks like a real unit, and people treat it as such. They are scared of being charged by it, they cast magic at them and they send expensive units to go kill them (much to the amusement of my knights

), .

Seriously, I have seen huge infantry blocks run after them, the best example being a 15-strong unit of White Lions

that spent half the battle chasing them! And since those guys were the only thing stopping me from riding down the rest of his units, that actually won me the game.

I know that 25 makes for a better MBU, but for the distraction and flank guard purposes I use them for I don't think I can justify another 50 points.

cheers,
martin

Lord Arcadyon of Monfort

Re:The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units Jun 20 2008 23:14

I have seen people field them in units of 15 and they are very effective.
I personally use units of 25 and know that these units are good at generating CR.
It really depends on what job your assigning to them.

tomahawk

Re:The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units Jun 23 2008 13:10

15 is an option sure.. but more of an advanced option.. and certainly not my favorite..
10 and 25 are the best sizes for beginning players...

As the title of the article suggest 20 is the wrong number, the player expects a battle unit which it really is not!

But please write an article about the virtues of 15 big [email protected] units if you really think they are so great..
IMO 15 primairly works if the opponent makes the mistake of under- or overestimating them..

So I throw down the gaunlet, who picks it up?

Sir Percival

Re:The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units Aug 15 2008 22:00

Well I use units of 20 with Banner & Muso. I find they do the job with the static combat resolution of 5.

If they draw shooting then they have done their job anyway protecting the valuable Knights.

I support them with Bows & Trebs usually as well as Knights.

tomahawk

Re:The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units Aug 16 2008 21:37

And so the tiniest amount of shooting of S3 shooting will decrease the rankbonus like the article said..
Your precious static CR of 5 will soon drop to 4 if the enemy even sneezes in their general direction

Our knights are well protected against shooting, only armourpiercing weapons really hurt them with -2AS..
Tradintional S4 AP that is... Haven´t considered the new DE Rbx rules yet

But please tell us the reasons why your idea of fielding exactly 20 MAA´s is better?
Have given the reasons why it ain´t better in the article, but lets hear your reason`s

LordBaleon

Re:The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units Aug 23 2008 08:46

I plan on fielding my Men-@-Arms in units of 24x (6x4) to give them the extra attack and so far its done well but I'm curious what u all think of it.

tomahawk

Re:The stupidity of fielding 20 strong [email protected] units Aug 23 2008 11:56

Why would you need an extra attack?
With their stats they aren't going to do much killing.
In most cases keeping +5 Static CR is the thing to go for and for minimizing losses.[+4 AS:) ]
In your case 2 wounds will kill the first rankbonus.

Not a good thing IMHO..

Just a question what weapons do your peasants use? hw, spear or Halberd?

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