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Specific Army-based Forces- Empire PDF Print E-mail
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Written by Jean Marcel l Impétueux   
Thursday, 17 August 2006

Specific Army-based Forces- Empire

We've all foght those countless battles against Undead, Dwarfs, Ogres, High Elves, Wood Elves, etc etc etc. the list goes on... but many of us simply use the same Army List composition again and again and face different win/lose situations with different armies.

This tactica discusses different tactics that can be used to counter other armies with Bretonnians. Specifically to start we have the Empire.

The Empire- Shooting

I have had my share of facing the Empire as even my own sibling collects them. Many fo their armies consist of Handgunners, Hellblaster Volleycannons, Great Cannons, Mortars, Pistoliers, Crossbowmen, Archers, and Huntsmen. A very shooting-type army.

Many players believe in riding forth for glory and honor with their Bretonnian army of knights hoping that we don't get ultimately slaughtered. There are ways to counter the cowardly shooting of the Empire.

Riding down the foe isn't always such a bad idea but when faced upon rank-killing, multi-shooting, armor-piercing bullets: it becomes quite a problem. That is why in the Bretonnian Army book there have been a fair share of items to help this!

First suggestion for All Knight armies: Create smaller units of knights with a powerhouse unit. The smaller knights are expendable (not THAT expendable but you catch my drift) as the Powerhouse unit is bulked up to last the battle.

Second suggestion for All Knight Armies: Putting your BSB and General or a Damsel in your powerhouse unit is agreat idea if they are armed to the teeth which spells like "Holwing Wind" So the enemy (within 12" of the caster) move at half speed and no shooting of Strength 4 can get through to you stopping almost all shooting other then from Great Cannons and Hellblasters up close... and a good amount of items like the Banner of Defence for your Battle Standard Bearer. Those Great Cannons don't look so scary when you have 4+ ward saves right? Put this in your main unit and they will be a total anti-shooting unit!

Other suggestions: Although it is always nice to have a huge amount of knights in your army to bring up the line in a very pointy, lance front line, against shooting armies I find it best to take large units of those sturdy men-at-arms! They can take cannonballs and shooting alike and even thought hey may lose a few models, they still have their ranks and the point loss is not too great when you only lose 5 pts. for each model that gets capped.

They are also useful in combat for their Combat Resolution. They can replace flanking forces with ease.

Another idea would always be counter shooting, and quick meat-shield units. Although the time has come up again and again where your bowmen fail to hit, when you shoot at shooting units with them they have the bonuses of longer range and no armor saves are usually applied to shooting units fo the Empire! Any hits and wounds you cause make the enemy go down. Quick units like Mounted Yeomen can be used to run down the line and jump in front of line of sight with their free reforms in the knick of time to save those knights from bombardment, not to mention their fast cavalry rule also gives you goood chances at flank charges, not to mention their Bows they have on their back is not a bad thing either. It goes with the shooting back idea.

Pegasus Knights are good for taking out those war machines, if they don't get shot at, and with a high-flying movement and a strong lance tip plus that attacks of the pegasi, you should be able to just go from war machine to war machine to war machine in the back ranks of the enemy's line.

Getting to the battle as quick as possible and just hoping for a good outcome has also sometimes, in the past, been a good outcome if the right units are targeted... of course I can't believe I'm putting this in here but for the stubborn players who love their knights, you can always hope the ward saves pull through!

The Empire- Combat; Foot Troops

Aye, another Empire player bringing those accursed blocks of 20-25 men... not to mention on their sides they have those weird small formations of men called detachments just WAITING for you to charge their parent unit for a flanking disaster. Many's the time I have chagred just to get it in the side.

So this will be our tactic for Foot Troops of the Empire.

Considering when the Empire goes to battle they bring the state troops and usually detachments are composed of either mid-sized amounts of militia (commoners), small units of more state troops like halberdiers, spearmen, or small units of handgunners or archers & crossbowmen.

Note that the special rules for them are that they can counter charge or counter fire into your units when they charge into the parent unit... heck the counter fire doesn't count as a stand and shoot round of firing.

First Suggestion: All Knight armies should beware. This is the thing that your knights should fear. Charging the main unit in front of you is the worst idea as the counter charge, negating your ranks and getting hit in the flanks, will be devasating. There is usually an easy way to rout this though. Simply charge the detachment once in range. Of course if you can't rout the unit in one combat I must warn you, readers, to beware of the parent unit flanking you in the next turn.

Second Suggestion: Double charging units like charging the Parent unit and a detachment with two units can be great as they are kept in combat and no one loses their ranks for it. Also, concerning the 7th edition rules, overrunning the detachments if you flank them before they can charge your knights' flank will overrun into a new comabt fought immediately on the parent unit usually.

Other Suggestions: A good Men-at-arms charge is always nice to see into the detachment units or even the parent units as bait for the counter charge! These primarily cheap units are good for helping the knights' flanks with small problems like these.

A shooting phase aiming for killing off or panicking the detachment units always works as well. Although it never routs the parent units, there is now no worries as to whether or not charge the enemy!

Fast cavalry once AGAIN come in use as tthey can be that small unit of 5 horsemen to either run into battle for you or even counter charge their counter charge! Very good especially considering the free reform technique to charge directly into the unit that charged you... after you charged the parent unit.

 

There is more to a standard Empire army then just their state troops and militia. They have elite units on foot such as Flagellants who are crazed and will fight to the very last man, and the dreaded Greatswords who have their high strength and the same armor save as a man-at-arm with a sword.

Flagellants, considering their crazed ways of fighting, are hard to handle sometimes even for our knights. Their strength is high with their flails and will last round after round even if they die pretty easily, not regarding their higher-then-average toughness.

Greatswords are mighty in close combat against any other foot troops and you can kiss you knights goodbye if you are on the receiving end of the charge.

First suggestion for countering Flagellants: This is about the best option anyone could think of: Questing knights. They have a high strength as well with actual armor and will also last round after round as they can kill these maniacs pretty easily and on the receiving end you fair decently considering you will have two 5+ saves to go for and on the charge you may not have to make saves if you cause enough wounds to take out their rank.

Second Suggestion for countering Flagellants: Flank attacks with men-at-arms is always ingenius. It negats rank bonuses so the combat resolution won't hurt a frontal assault, and you can do decent damage with spears on the flank or even halberds would be an ideal idea to wound the enemy easier!

Other Suggestions: A use for the Grail Reliquae and its mighty Battle Pilgrims. Fight fire with fire, right? Sending in a tough stubborn unit with hatred and many attacks, not to mention close to unbreakable with the blessing, a 4+ armor save, and a leadership of 8 these boys won't let up the fight for you while your army goes elsewhere. Of course giving them a little help is always nice considering it is hard for them to wound.

First Suggestion for countering Greatswords: These guys may be strong but they are as tough as any other natural Empire soldier. A hard hit from anything at a Knight's strength of 5 will deal a significant blow. If you really wish to avoid combat, hitting them with Trebuchets isn't a bad idea.

Second Suggestion for countering Greatswords: Questing knights, the better form of Greatsword, are "here to save the day" with a better armor save and a higher strength not to mention these boys aren't afraid of much, they should be able to tear a hole through the ranks as they have the first strike always making it easy enough to wound and take out enough enemies so you take nothing back.

Other Suggestions: Usually, unless in high point games, Greatswords come in small units. They are expensive for foot troops at that. I believe that firing a few rounds of a good amount of arrows should bring them down to crumble beneath your feet.

State troops include Halberdiers, Spearmen, Handgunners and Swordsmen. The only unit to be advised against is the Swordsmen. They have a higher-then-average weapon skill and a 4+ armor save. They can be pretty decent if you don't score enough wounds on them to beat them back from combat. All other state troops can be pretty easily dealt with as any normal spearmen or halberd unit. Handgunners were taken up above.

The Empire- Cavalry

As a Bretonnian player I feel pretty safe knowing that we have cavalry that can really outplay anything that the Empire can think of. The only problem in thinking that was that all cavalry armies for the Empire has a few twists in it that give it a neat look.

Using such elite units as Pistoliers and Knigts of the White Wolf, they can be a little more 'awesome' then some might think. The Pisotliers have the Fullisade move allowing them to fire in the first round of combat. A devastating blow to us as one of Bretonnia's weaknesses would seem to be gunpowder.

The Knights of the White Wolf are a little nasty too. Equipped with cavalry hammers giving them +2 strength on the charge and +1 for any other time, their charge can be a hurtful disaster for knights and in the second round of combat they don't stop as they still pull off 2+ armor saves with a constant strength 4 attack. With them being Knights of the Inner Circle they have a constant strength 5 attack and strength 6 on the charge. An even meaner combination.

Unlikely to bother you usually though are the ranks of their other knights like the Knightly Orders which are basicly Knights of the Realm unless given the Knights of the Inner Circle upgrade then they're Knights of the Realm with strength 4. They can be decent in combat if you misjudge the charge and they hit you head on.

First Suggestion to counter Pistoliers: If you are on the charge you have the definite advantage. Their steeds aren't barded so they have the same charge range, but let's hope you get the charge off. Considering you strike first: they will fall easily beneath you. Of course this is regarding that their stand and shoot phase doesn't do too well and it shouldn't as it'll be harder to hit you anyway.

Second Suggestion to counter Pistoliers: What better to counter short range pistoliers with long range bows? Hitting these guys with those arrows will do enough damage to take them down as their low armor save wounds them easily! Not to mention you can count on no attacks back.

Other Suggestions: Ignoring these bad boys is always a good idea. You don't really have much to worry about as long as you keep an eye on them. Usually you just have to make sure they don't get within range of charge or shooting and you're fine! Take care of them after you defeat the rest of the army. These guys aren't to be considered too much of a threat unless on the charge.

First Suggestion for countering Knights of the White Wolf: Basically it's pretty easy. Don't misjudge your charge range and hit them lance-first! A good uncturing hit through these guys will throw them on the ground easy as the lance formation will desecrate their abilities to hurt you much in subsequent rounds.

Second Suggestion for countering Knights of the White Wolf: Considering I have seen these units in numbers between 5-10, I always have wanted to just yell out "Look out, s-" *Splat*. Masonry rocks shot from your trebuchet accurately will splat this unit simply without any trouble like any other unit. Not to mention their point costs are relatively high for the Empire so it'll get you something good against them.

Other Suggestions: Facing them off or holding them at bay with Men-at-arms is always a great way to keep em busy as you go for a flank or your army deals with the rest of the enemy. Also, reforming right in front of them for a flank charge is great as thie have an extreme weakness to it. The number of attacks back is always little on the flanks for them so a good charge from Mounted Yeomen is quite advised.

Dealing with the Knightly Orders shouldn't be too hard. Simply get the charge first. Pretty much simply said: You have more cavalry, you win. As a unit or two of these knights could never defeat an entire Bretonnian cavalry charge! A small notice here that the only thing to beware is Knightly Order knights have a 1+ armor save compared to the normal Bretonnian 2+ armor save. All should be aware of this and take caution to trying to peel through their armor. 

The Empire- Other Concerns

There is more to an Empire army then just what has been listed all above. I would like to mention a second time the Hellblaster Volleycannon and now the Steam Tank.

The Hellblaster Volleycannon is a cannon that shoots three rounds of shots in a shooting phase. Each number of hits is determined by the Artillery dice (the dice with the (!) on it) the number is halved and at strength 4 at long range and at strength 5 and at full in close range. Should something happen to interrupt the mechanism in the midst of firing a shot, all subsequent firing stops. If the misfire is hit they can roll a D6... the bad part? On a 6 it has a glorious shot of firing all of the rest of its rounds at 10 shots each... if you're on your first shot that's a total of 30 hits... at strength 4 OR 5, the range doesn't matter on it- it does not get halved. Mind you you DO get armor saves against this cannon. 

The Steam Tank is another deadly assault weapon with a cannon on it and major impact hits, hard to take down and is pretty much invulnerable to small attacks. Our knights are exactly what it takes to take it down.

First Suggestion to countering the Hellblaster Volleycannon: The spell Howling Wind and the Banner of Defense listed in the shooting portion of the army tactics is a great way to counter ALL of its shots. at 24 inches to 13 inches away from it it can't fire if you cast the spell, if you get within 12 inches of it or less you receive a 4+ ward save from all attacks and armor saves can be taken from this cannon.

Second Suggestion to countering the Hellblaster Volleycannon: Pegasus knights can fly into the back and kill off the crew to the cannon leaving it a useless piece of artillery on the battlefield

Other Suggestions: Using any peasantly unit as a barrage sponge works very very well, the unit may get pounded into the ground by a ton of cannon shots but any sacrafice for your knights to get the subsequent turn's charge on it is good!

Another comment would be that the Hellblaster has an easier chance then other artillery pieces to blow itself up. The usual "Roll a 1 and it blows up" rule is (for the Hellblaster Volleycannon Misfire chart) actually a "Roll a 1 or a 2 and it blows itself up." This is a very good thing for all players to realize. Mind you as stated above, if they roll a 6 on the misfire chart, it blows out 10 shots from each barrel that still needs firing and from the one that had the misfire with a total of 30 shots. This also does not matter on the range, in other words it doesn't get halved when at 13 inches or further. Although the strength is still 4 at 13 inches or further and 5 at 12 inches or closer. 

First Suggestiong for Countering the Steam Tank: As it is hard to do such a thing, the main objective to take it down is throw your knights at it. Those lance hits can wound it enought o almost make it close to useless in a few charges.

Second Suggestion for countering the Steam Tank: A better idea then the first almost I'd say. Fire your trebuchets at it as if there's nothing else on the battlefield! They have a special hit when they hit the Steam Tank as they always count as hitting it from above which, according to the Steam Tank rules is a 'soft hit', meaning it hits harder and does more damage!

Other Suggestions: You can always try doing major damage to it with characters! It sounds like an aweful sarcrafice but the abomination is 300 or so points without upgrades and such so a character that can deal heavy damage is VERY much appreciated in close combat with the tank. Hope to God it doesn't kill the man before he gets there though.

The Empire- Heroes and Characters

The last addition to this article now is dealing with their vast choices of heroes which include:

  • Elector Counts
  • Templar Grand Masters
  • Wizard Lords
  • Captains
  • Warrior Priests
  • Master Engineers
  • and Battle Wizards

The only real challenge actually lies in the following areas: Magic items for Characters and Magic from their wizards. With small threats from their Master Engineers.

Their magic items are pretty deadly if put together properly, with many many choices and many different affects with even more so then Bretonnia. The only problem I can warn you, my fellow readers, about is their combination possibilities being extremely high.

Suggestion against magic items: Only a single suggestion. Considering Bretonnians have heroes bred for battle, you shouldn't have much of a tough time beating back their heroes, but if we have some worry then I would advise taking the Morning Star of Fracasse as it can destroy magical weapons!

Suggestion against magic: The good old fashion Scroll Caddies will do here as you probably won't win in the magic department. The Colleges of Magic the Empire have give them access to all 8 lores of Magic. Best way to go is pure Magical Defense. Use the Magic Resistance in the right place and bring scrolls!

Master Engineers have a special ability as when they are part of the crew of any piece of artillery they can re-roll anything they want once. Of course this is a greater chance for a misfire of that cannonball getting stuck in the ground but it has been known to wreak havoc in the past. They also have the option of taking the Hochland Long Rifle.

This rifle has a 36 inch range, -2 to your armor save, strength 4 hit. It can be targeted at anyone on the field regardless of if they're in a unit or not. Think of it as a medieval Sniper Rifle.

First Suggestion to counter Master Engineers: Duck for cover? Naw, kidding, let the ward save help you here and your armor save should svae you from his experimental weapons. Getting this man into close combat is key and his points are valuable if you bring him down. So try to get to him and engage his joined artillery piece.

Second Suggestion to counter Master Engineers: Using Pegasus Knights is key to flying out and destroying those war machines, you can also use them (if they don't get sniped) to take out the Master Engineers and gain those points from his death and the lack of yet another hero in that man's army!

Other Suggestions: The man isn't too great in the stats department so taking out any unit he is with and then shooting at him could kill him pretty easily. Master Engineers don't usually wear much armor, that is to your benefit if you shoot in his direction.

In Closing

This would be the unfortunate end to my Tactica for facing Empire. I shall keep writing new ones for every army as I face them. Many people misjudge these Germanic Brigands known as the Empire and I heed warning not too. Their cannons are mighty and their men can hold out against even the most powerful attacks if they are put to the task of doing so. So farewell readers who wish to defeat these armies of Middenland, Talabheim, Reikland and so forth. May the Lady bless you on your travels.

 

 

 

Last Updated ( Monday, 21 August 2006 )
 
Discuss (9 posts)
Specific Army-based Forces- Empire Aug 18 2006 06:11
This thread discusses the Content article: Specific Army-based Forces- Empire

Okay yes this took me a whole night after gathering all articles, all my battles I've fought against them and such put together and pretty much tells you how to deal with specific units that (in this case the Empire) have and how to deal with them.

Out of this you can make a good army composition to face different types of armies. This is the summary of all Imperial forces and their strengths and ways to get around them.

I hope some of you enjoy, I shall soon be moving on to a new army, probably Dark Elves or even (God forbid) an in-general anti-Bretonnian article for those who aren't one of us lol.

Tell me your thoughts on this article, please

Edit: Excuse the oddity of the printing for the most part. It was supposed to be a bit different looking then what it is but hey it's made for reading soyou might as well as do just that

Post edited by: Jean Marcel l Impéteux, at: 2006/08/18 01:20
Re:Specific Army-based Forces- Empire Aug 18 2006 15:24
Well written post that I'm sure will be very helpful to those aren't yet that familiar with the sons of sigmar. I was hoping to see something about the green knight because he is something I almost take against empire if there's just enough points. Awesome at destroying warmachines and engineers, spreads terror (empire's leadership is quite good but not good enough to counter this) and can even destroy the small detatchments with ease. The best part is that there aren't really anything in empire artillery that can hurt him
Re:Specific Army-based Forces- Empire Aug 18 2006 23:22
Aw yes I was using basic summary... didn't think to add Special Characters in there... I'll go back and make an edit in there... or even... make a whole article on how he can be used "properly "
Re:Specific Army-based Forces- Empire Aug 19 2006 03:17
What a great idea!
Re:Specific Army-based Forces- Empire Aug 19 2006 03:21
Yeah... if anyone has any examples or ideas for me you can tell me for it ^^ or even stories... because stories and examples are always great and key to tactical examples on how things SHOULD work

I have a few ideas to expose his abilities at their best but I need a collective amount of information from people (mind you credit will be given ) on what they think how they've used them and stuff like that.
Re:Specific Army-based Forces- Empire Aug 19 2006 13:39
As one who primarily plays Empire, I quite liked the article, nicely done Jean!

The two things I'd suggest would be mentioning in the Empire Cavalry section that empire knights (not knights of the white wolf) have a slightly better armor save, and in the hellblaster bit mentioning that hellblaster volley guns are their own worst enemies. They are extremely prone to misfires, so sometimes the best weapon against them is providing large blocks of cheap troops (Men-at-Arms with knights a safe distance behind ought to do the trick) and just let the hellblaster fire untill it destroys itself. However, you might want to add a disclaimer to that strategy about not working against rather consistantly lucky opponets.

All in all a very nice article, I look forward to seeing more!

Post edited by: Sir Nicolae of La Siont, at: 2006/08/19 08:39
Re:Specific Army-based Forces- Empire Aug 19 2006 22:24
Sir La Siont has a good point there.
I have to play vs. the Empire quite often, and I can count on always having to deal with a Hellblaster in there somewhere. Almost every game it destroys itself or somehow misfires, though sometimes the misfire occurs on the second barrel only so he still can shoot with the first barrell and the third.
I do not enjoy the misfire that makes the entire Hellblaster shoot all 30 shots - that is tough to stand up to! Although I once saw a single Saurus warrior mounted on a Cold One get shot with all 30 shots at close range (is there a difference? Don't know) and he didn't suffer a single wound from it!!! Poor dice by the Hellblaster, and then fabulous rolling by the Lizzie player. It is possible, not likely though, to get up close to it and survive.
Re:Specific Army-based Forces- Empire Aug 21 2006 16:24
Verily, tis the sort of information that I crave. Thanks to you Sir Knight for what is obviously a lot of effort! I salute you and await further educational missives with great anticipation. Bring on the Rat men , by the way am I the only one who finds the skaven army book very hard to understand? there doesn't seem to be any guidelines about what you can or can't take if you have specific clans, maybe I'm missing something but the chaos codex in 40k has the same sort of stuff but is much more clearly set out, yet the BRB is much clearer than the BGB. Go figure!
Re:Specific Army-based Forces- Empire Aug 31 2006 01:45
Thanks for all the compliments, I've only noticed this was marked "new" now I added Sir Nicolae's comments in there that you advised.... once I return home to my mothers I shall be digging my nose into the Dark Elf army book looking through everything they have

It might be a bit because I wish to play a few battles against the dark elf army I have stored away to test out our weaknesses and our strengths... particularily I can already highlight their weapon skill is high they have poison they have tough mounts and dark evil magiks that could impede us but after playing a few battles against them we shall see how it all fairs out shall we not?

Soo expect soon "Specific Army-based Forces- Dark Elves"

Next will be: "Specific Army-based Forces- Bretonnia" as I shall uncover our very own weaknesses... after of which I have not decided whether or not to look into Wood Elves or Chaos... Chaos is difficult with its many many many variations that even confuses me after a while...

I need to go out and buy the dwarf army book too... I wish to do one on them a lot but even though I face them regularily I know not too much of them unfortunately... so I'll look into that.

Thanks for reading this article and soon there shall be more

-Jean-


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